Status Go: Ep. 222 – Status Go Goes Green | Pam Sammarco

Summary

Welcome to another episode of “Status Go,” the podcast that explores the intersection of technology and business. In today’s episode, titled “Status Go Goes Green,” we dive into the world of sustainable technology and how it is shaping the future of organizations. Pam Sammarco joins us as our guest. Pam is an expert in the field and shares her insights on the topic. We will explore five types of sustainable technology, from green IT to smart and green buildings, and discuss their importance in achieving business goals and performance metrics. Pam will also highlight the role of CIOs in implementing these technologies and aligning them with organizational strategies. So sit back, relax, and get ready to go green as we explore the exciting world of sustainable technology on “Status Go.”

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About Pam Sammarco

Pam is the CEO, Green Training Associates LLC, a full-service Talent Development Firm since 2009.  We develop people’s capabilities to solve the world’s challenges and build sustainable organizations.  We accelerate growth and optimize workforce retention through  Power TQ Skills Solution for Tech Professionals, Emerging Leader Training, Middle Manager Training, DEI Leadership Training, Leadership Coaching, Total TD Solution with Career Paths, Onboarding, and Mentoring Solutions.  We help people and organizations thrive and perform at their highest potential. As a learning strategist and solution architect, Pam transforms learning experiences into business impact.  With 35+ years corporate training experience, 24 years in Technology, and 15 years in Sustainability, Green Training Associates LLC integrates sustainability into your corporate culture to advance employee performance. Pam’s clients include the corporate, higher education and non-profit sectors.  Pam has a prior career with Citigroup, American Express, Lucent Technologies Bell Labs Innovations, Medco Health Solutions.   Pam is a Career Dev Board Officer for Women in Cleantech & Sustainability Organization; Pam is a leader on the Women in Green initiative, USGBC MANE Region; Pam is the VP, Leadership & Talent, NNJ Association for Talent Development.

Episode Highlights

[00:00:00]: Intro – The Triple Bottom Line

[00:01:51]: Pam Sammarco’s Journey

[00:03:39]: Passion for Green and Sustainability

[00:05:07]: Gartner’s Prediction

[00:09:35]: Why Has Elevated the Conversation?

[00:12:07]: Five Key Drivers for IT

[00:14:22]: ESG and Technology

[00:16:46]: Beyond Energy Efficiency

[00:21:09]: Five Pillars and ESG Reporting

[00:25:51]: CIO University

[00:28:59]: Training Suites

[00:32:29]: Five Actions for the Price of Two

[00:34:24]: Closing

Episode Transcript

Pam Sammarco [00:00:00]:

So we’re no longer focused on a single bottom line, which is profit, but we’re focused on the triple bottom line, which is ensuring that we’re making good decisions for environmental, social, and governance reasons.

Jeff Ton [00:00:35]:

In its Top Strategic Technology Trends 2023 [Report], Gartner identified sustainable technology as an immediate opportunity for IT leaders across most industries. In that report, they stated that by 2025 – that’s not that far away – 50% of CIOs will have performance metrics tied to the sustainability of the IT organization.

This is your host, Jeff Ton, and welcome to Status Go Goes Green. In this episode, we are going to dig into Gartner’s prediction and what it means for you. Spoiler alert: it goes far beyond the energy efficiency of your hardware. Today’s guest is Pam Sammarco. Pam is the Founder and CEO of Green Training Associates, a full-service talent development firm. Pam will not only help us unpack this prediction, but she will also identify the key skills you will need to ensure you and your team are ready.

Welcome to status. Go, Pam.

Pam Sammarco [00:01:43]:

Hello. Jeff and Status Go listeners. Thank you for our conversation today and for everyone tuning in.

Jeff Ton [00:01:51]:

I think this is going to be a great conversation. Pam and I can’t wait to dive in. But before we talk about sustainable tech, can you share a little bit about your background, and your career journey?

Pam Sammarco [00:02:04]:

Absolutely, Jeff. Thank you.

I founded Green Training Associates 15 years ago after my 24-year global corporate career in training and development. And when I started my firm, I’m an innovator and have a progressive mindset and a trendsetter. So, I was looking around for how to contribute and considered what does the world and the marketplace need when I decided to focus my central business theme around talent development solutions that will protect the Earth, build sustainable organizations, and improve our sustainability for our future.

So, I help people and organizations thrive and perform at their highest potential, and I use everything I know about developing people. And I’ve worked in the tech sector for about 24 years in companies and consulting for global and national technology companies. So, I bring behavior change, expertise, learning strategist, and solution architect. I’m creating a tidal wave of change to respond with urgency to develop people’s capabilities to solve the world’s challenges. And my clients are organizations that drive business results by integrating sustainability into their people and business strategies, as well as core curriculum, which is where my Power TQ Skills Solution, culture training suites, leadership development, coaching, and career path programs come in.

So, Jeff, I’m delighted to be here to share my expertise around sustainability and sustainable strategies and the embedding of sustainability into technology.

Jeff Ton [00:03:39]:

I’d love to know, Pam, where did this passion for sustainability and green. Where did that come from in your background? What triggered that for you?

Pam Sammarco [00:03:52]:

I think being in nature most of my life, granddaughter of two family farmers, and understanding and wanting to protect the Earth, I’ve always loved science and technology and probably should have been in a career of biology, chemistry, physics, and the sciences, environmental science particularly.

And so back in the day, that wasn’t something that women were necessarily in more traditional roles, were not really thought of in that way. So, I just have always been a science and technology enthusiast and decided to translate that into how do I use my talent development experience and couple that with regarding the environmental science and the planet.

I focus on the human side and the business side of sustainability. I’m not a technical expert, so Green Training Associates is about the people and business strategies that support companies. And I think that my understanding of the entire green sector is brought to the table through my personal experience, my studies of IT, and connecting with my clients.

Jeff Ton [00:05:07]:

Well, it does certainly start with people, right? When we talk about the three P’s, I was talking with Calvin Hendrix-Parker on a recent Status Guo episode, and we talked about people, planet, and profit. So it does start that way.

Well, let’s dive into this Gartner prediction. In some ways, I felt like that prediction was somewhat out of place when you look at some of the other trends that they identify in their report, like AI and cybersecurity, but in other ways, it seems like it’s about time. We’ve been talking about Green IT for 20 years or more. As I mentioned at the outset, this prediction from Gartner is that by 2025, 50% of CIOs will have performance metrics tied to sustainability. This may be foreign territory for a lot of our listeners.

So, if you don’t mind, Pam, let’s start with a couple of definitions to make sure we’ve got a level playing field. When we talk about sustainability, many times we talk about ESG, what is ESG? And then take it a bit further and define sustainable technology, at least according to Gartner.

Pam Sammarco [00:06:25]:

Yeah, Jeff, you’ve made some excellent points about the world’s challenges and the race for net zero and how that is accelerating. So, I think the biggest challenge is first just to respond to what’s the out of place and what seems to be a logical path, the biggest challenge is related to how fast and how widespread technology usage and the innovation of technology is happening. So, the amount of usage of technology on a daily basis for everything has basically become the basis for our lives, in our personal lives, and in business.

So that accelerated pace then is driving the innovation as well as the energy efficiency and all the issues that we expect as what would be a natural daily interaction is driving the up usage of technology. And therefore, that’s driving us to make sure that we take care of the planet as part of the energy efficiency path. But that’s not the only thing. So, the urgency is here. Everyone’s got to contribute, and technology is critical. Those are the key points.

So let me start with a basic definition that sustainability is all-encompassing and is found in every aspect of life. Sustainable organizations should then be balancing their business strategy with people, planet prosperity, peace, and partnerships. There are five P’s now within and around their ecosystems.

So, then ESG is environmental, social, and governance. That’s a broad definition of the three interrelated categories of the impact that organizations have, and they’re a framework for planning, executing, measuring, and reporting the results from their sustainability strategy. And we’re going to have an example of ESG reporting in a bit. But we want to manage risks and embrace opportunities to do no harm to the world as a result of doing business.

So, we’re no longer focused on the single bottom line, which is profit, but we’re focused on the triple bottom line, which is ensuring that we’re making good decisions. So, every decision is about making a good decision for environmental, social, and governance reasons.

So then, per Gartner, what is sustainable technology? Well, it’s a framework of solutions that actually will increase your energy and material efficiency of IT services. That’s what we know as green IT. And it also enables enterprise sustainability through using technology for traceability analytics, renewable energy, and other things. And we want to layer in, helping our customers, right, to become more sustainable through apps, software, marketplace products, and even electronic waste recycling and all the good things that technology stands for. Innovation from a technology standpoint is a basis to get out of where we’ve been, which is a problem, a world of challenges.

Jeff Ton [00:09:35]:

Yeah, you touched on these drivers a little bit, but like I say, we’ve been talking about green IT and energy efficiency, it seems like, for 20 years or maybe longer. So, what’s the buzz about ESG and sustainability? What’s happening that is driving this conversation today?

Pam Sammarco [00:09:57]:

Well, Gartner’s report on the top strategic technology trends in 2023, it’s the immediate opportunity for information technology executives to bring clarity to your priorities and align your top three business goals. Protect and grow your brand attract and retain talent, [and] grow revenue. So those three business goals are directionally correct for IT executives to consider the importance of sustainable technology.

And when you look at sustainable business practices in a more broad sense for your enterprise, there’s four major purposes today. They’re a corporate obligation. They’re integrated into profitability models because you want to grow revenue and profit margin by reducing costs and risks. So, if there’s a problem in your manufacturing, you’re going to have an environmental risk. You’ve got to mitigate the manufacturing waste, for example, to improve your profitability because your risk is going to increase, and it’s going to cost you money if there’s environmental damage.

So, it also presents a strong environmental brand. Everyone is expecting that strong environmental brand, your employees attracting and retaining new talent for the younger generation. It’s a must that you’re purpose-driven and centrally focused on not doing any harm. And it’s essential in those talent recruitment and retention strategies that attract these millennials and Gen Z.

So, there are really four main purposes around sustainable business practices. And technology is an underpinning of helping that happen. Technology is essential. There’s a multifaceted role to contribute to your organization’s sustainability. Operate your function with sustainable technology and mindset shift. And guess what? Your customers, your investors, your stakeholders, and your employees are demanding transparency, data accuracy, visibility, and authenticity in sustainable operations, products, and services.

Jeff Ton [00:12:07]:

It’s an easy job. I tell you the role of the CIO, the IT leader that has to manage all that complexity. I’ve heard in your work, in what I’ve read and heard you talk about, Pam, you boil it down to some key drivers for technology. What are those five key drivers, and how do they begin to relate to this conversation about sustainability?

Pam Sammarco [00:12:35]:

So, what’s exciting, Jeff, is I’ve seen maturity over the 15 years of sustainability experience that I have and looking at what’s going on in the tech sector and in my space of sustainability. Sustainable technology is not a bolt-on solution. It is infused into your overall business strategy for your organization. And the ESG factors should be accounted for in every decision you make.

So those five key business drivers, you don’t just like, it’s not additive, but it’s infused and embedded. And those are the key messages. And when you look at the five key business drivers, they’re all infused into sustainability and the technology as well.

So the first one is partner to enable your business.

Number two, drive efficiencies. That’s within technology or IT and within the business overall. So, energy efficiency across the organization, not just in IT, is essential.

Reducing risk.

Innovate for market opportunity is number four, and implement change internally for employees and externally for customers.

So technology has innovation baked in it’s naturally what you do. And then you’ve got to lead people through the change to make that comfortable internally and externally so that people can understand what change is coming.

And those are the five which is partner to enable the business drive efficiencies. Number two. Number three, reduce risk. Number four, innovate for market opportunity. Number five, implement that change carefully.

Jeff Ton [00:14:22]:

I love that efficiency in your list is second because so often, that’s where a lot of focus has been on technology in the past, but rather you lead with partner with the business. I love that, Pam.

Pam Sammarco [00:14:37]:

Yeah, thanks. So let me give you a couple of quick examples of how ESG works in the technology space and that will help cement the understanding of technology contributions.

So environmental technologies would be it reducing the risk and drive efficiency that prevent, mitigate and adapt risk in the natural world, like the manufacturing example, I gave.

Social technologies where IT partners to enable the business to improve human rights, outcomes, well-being and prosperity. So, the social component to It is critical.

And of course, the governance technologies also is the third way the ESG to look at how It partners with the business around conduct and capacity, which strengthen business ethics, DEI, accountability, data privacy, and accuracy in reporting.

So all of these ESG technologies also support the innovation for market opportunity because businesses can capitalize on a technology which enables their products and services to work better and to be more visible in the marketplace in a sustainable manner and also implementing that change leadership. So these ESG are essential in terms of technology and the impact that CIOs can have on the business strategy.

Jeff Ton [00:16:01]:

Well, and I like how you talk about that. It’s embedded, or it’s infused. It’s a part of business, it’s a part of the sustainability programs. We’re going to pause right here for a message from InterVision Systems. As our listeners know, InterVision Systems is the publisher of the Status Go podcast.

Voice Over – Ben Miller [00:16:25]:

Unlock the power of More. With InterVision Systems, we provide the cutting-edge technology and expert guidance you need to take your business to the next level. Don’t settle for less. Choose InterVision Systems and discover what’s possible. Contact us now to learn more.

Jeff Ton [00:16:46]:

And if you do want to learn more, visit Intervision.com. There’s lots of information on the website about how InterVision can help you with your IT needs and help you with your sustainability needs as well.

Right now, we’re talking with Pam Samarco of Green Training and Associates, and we’re talking about this intersection of sustainability and technology. And I know when many IT professionals think about sustainability and tech, they think of the energy efficiency of the hardware or perhaps the energy consumed by their data centers. It really goes well beyond that, though, doesn’t it?

Pam Sammarco [00:17:29]:

Jeff, it’s all the green It actions that you mentioned and very well beyond. So let me expand our listeners’ view with a reimagined vision of sustainable technologies. So what are the five types? Here we go green IT also known as sustainable IT, is the baseline, it’s the minimum bar that IT or CIOs should set for their IT department. There’s so many great examples of using renewable energy sources and data center efficiencies to cooling them and all the things that we can do for electronic waste recycling, et cetera.

But we also layer in a second type, which is human Resources uses a lot of technology these days. Your executive is going to be a good person to partner with HR, not only in their use of technology, whether it’s automated resume reviews, video used, AI-infused job interviews, and other ways to sort candidates and DEI practices. But workforce automation is huge. So, the World Economic Forum has a study around the number of jobs that are going away in the next two to three years due to automation. And then the number of new jobs that will be created. Your partnership with HR is going to be essential to talk about workforce automation from a technology standpoint and how do we upskill and reskill those employees that jobs are going away? Verizon’s done a brilliant job. So human resource technology and workforce automation is your second type.

ESG reporting is your third. We got a great example coming on that technological innovation is imperative to innovate, and that’s the fourth type. And smart and green buildings is the fifth type. So smart buildings have technology underpinning along with the dashboard that monitor the building operation, systems for energy efficiency, air quality, water, et cetera. So your HVAC systems and everything in your buildings can have smart building sensors. And then you’ve got green buildings, which is another layer of building importance, which is LEED certified buildings with US Green Building Council and that has maybe sustainable materials in addition to energy efficient systems to run the building.

So your five types are green. IT, human resource technology, workforce automation. Number three is ESG. Reporting for technological innovation using technology smart. And number five, smart and green buildings.

So guess what guys and gals, all five types of sustainable technology are fair game for those performance metrics that Gartner was speaking about. And you’re going to want to build your network of partners for cross-disciplinary collaboration. I’ve got more to talk about than we have time on this broadcast but reach out to me because we heard Gartner’s prediction loud and clear. By 2025, 50% of CIOs will have performance metrics. So remember, your performance metrics can be qualitative and quantitative. They’re going to definitely be derived from the five types of sustainable technologies. And your enterprise organization is going to rely on your commitment to pull through the planning and execution and metrics for one or more of these five types. So this podcast is just beginning to jumpstart your thought leadership where you can proactively embed sustainable technology and collaborate with your organizational partners.

Jeff Ton [00:21:09]:

I got to tell you that my involvement in green and sustainability started with the fifth category you mentioned, which was the smart buildings and green buildings. I was working for a commercial real estate developer as their CIO at the time, and that’s really what struck me and got me involved in that was how can I, as a technology leader, help our buildings become smarter, to use that term, and how can we help our buildings become greener?

Now you mentioned the five pillars. We don’t have time to dig into all five of them, but could you give us some insights into ESG reporting and maybe give us an example after you define it?

Pam Sammarco [00:22:01]:

Yeah, sure. So ESG reporting know many companies start to build their sustainability strategy by doing a materiality assessment which collects data on the ESG topics that are most important to your stakeholders and to the core of your business. And it’s also very focused on your vertical industry. So, variety of verticals will have some standards, and there are best practices to benchmark around what a good sustainability strategy is and what your stakeholders inside and outside your organization really care about are the ones that you then start to tag for your priorities and how to build your strategy and what your commitments are.

So the enterprises then will report using ESG reporting methodology on the results of their strategy. So you set a strategy, you set science-based targets, you use a materiality assessment to assess your stakeholder needs, and then you’re going to build a report that reflects what you committed to and then what results you produced as a result of it.

So, what’s really important is that this process of reporting is intensive in terms of internal and external data collection. You have probably thousands of data points and hundreds of data providers with a variety of systems that need to be pulled together and integrated and aggregated, and synthesized into a report. So, you think about all the systems that are used and who owns the data in different parts of your organization that then gets pulled in across all operational systems, across both your value chain and supply chains using technology platforms.

And I’m seeing a trend where organizations are bringing the data aggregation platform in house, which is another layer of interest for CIOs and their data science teams. And there are plenty of ESG reporting consulting firms out there that are more than qualified as well.

So, once you get this concept of the ESG reporting, companies then also have mandatory Security and Exchange Commission climate disclosures that are being implemented by the federal government. So you’re going to need to report on the climate disclosures by the SEC, and it has this critical role in the collection, aggregation, integration, and reporting of these science-based targets.

And your actual, you know, sustainable technology is essential to working with your data owners and the stakeholders. The reports have a variety of names ESG, CSR, Impact, Purpose, and Sustainability Reports, they’re called a bunch of different things. There’s great examples on the web, but I’ll share a brief example of a use case.

Cisco Systems Inc. Has a long history of purpose reports since 2005. Their comprehensive reports tell their journey of pursuing Cisco’s purpose, which is to power an inclusive future for all. They’re publicly available on the Cisco.com website. They’ve done an amazing job of tracking reporting, 18 identified priority ESG topics anywhere from people to community, environment, human rights, carbon footprint, and more to describe Cisco’s materiality and the results. And they report on five governing bodies in terms of data standards, which is breathtaking Global Reporting Initiative SASB, which is Accounting Standards Task Force on Climate-Related Financial Disclosures, the carbon Disclosure Project and the UN Sustainable Development Goals. So it’s a really fantastic example of a great technology global technology company.

Jeff Ton [00:25:51]:

I love that example because Cisco is a really vital partner of InterVision and for our listeners. I dare say that most of them are Cisco customers. If not, they certainly know of Cisco, and to use that as an example was fantastic.

Pam, when you and I were first introduced, one of the things that caught my attention was your Power TQ Skills Solution. Could you give us an overview of the Power TQ Skills Solution program and highlight the skills that you teach in that course or that set of courses that will help our listeners prepare for their role in sustainability?

Pam Sammarco [00:26:37]:

Absolutely. Thanks so much, Jeff, for asking. Green Training Associates offers a custom Power TQ Skills Solution that Powers Technology Intelligence (TQ) with Skills to deliver actionable IT.   Power TQ delivers training curricula and performance labs with critical capabilities. I call the capabilities ‘power skills’.  In the past, some people called them soft skills or interpersonal skills.  A lot of times, IT professionals may not consider that to be professional development, but they’re critical.  Some examples of power skills in my curriculum include: Critical Thinking to manage complex situations; Collaborate in a cross-disciplinary manner to solve problems; Manage and align multiple Stakeholders and resolve conflicts; Innovate to solve problems, challenges and access market opportunities; Lead change inside and outside the organization to execute innovation.  Power TQ is a very sophisticated solution for tech executives who want to build Sustainable Technology with Performance Metrics to respond to Gartner’s prediction.

And we take a skills-first approach to power up your employees with capabilities applied directly to your business and your ESG goals. So, your talent is going to be with technical expertise, will be more successful in your organization if you enable these people skills. So, the business case for improving the skills and capabilities is clear. Your technical credentials, licenses, and certifications are not enough to be successful in the business world and your organization.

Today, companies may hire people for their IQ, but they may fire them for missing EQ. So, EQ and personality styles, relationships, extraordinary teams, critical thinking, all kinds of topics that they have. But smart IT professionals need people smarts, too. So, what we do is our job, and how we do our jobs is how we manage our work relationships.

So I encourage you to invest in your IT professional’s growth. And these skills are tied to your key business drivers, the five key business drivers we spoke about earlier, which is how to innovate for opportunity, implement change, enable the business, drive efficiencies, and reduce risk. So we automatically align the skills that you need and capabilities to your business strategy. And that tight alignment delivers the organizational impact that you need, and iT improves employee engagement and retention, enables upskilling and reskilling plans to support career growth, cultivates a growth mindset and culture shift, and builds habits through applied training and great relationship-building networks.

So, thanks for mentioning that.

Jeff Ton [00:28:59]:

Oh, absolutely. You’re speaking my language when you talk about what we used to call soft skills. And now, I like to refer to them as essential skills. And it’s those skills that really differentiate a high performing IT team versus one that’s just kind of getting by.

Now, I know the other thing that you’ve got available for training purposes on your website, you talk about these suites, these virtual training suites, and I know virtual is kind of a holdover from the pandemic, so they’re available virtual or in person. Could you give us a little peek at those?

Pam Sammarco [00:29:44]:

Yeah, absolutely.

So, Jeff, I was delighted when you and I met that the first thing we did was connect on how people and technology operate together. And organization culture is another layer of that. So we resonate, and we’re so synergistic in our thinking about how powerful technology and people can be to work together with the right combination and the right capabilities.

So, organization culture is a critical topic today more than ever to attract, retain, develop, and engage your IT leaders and employees. So the classic quote by Peter Drucker still stands true “culture eats strategy for breakfast.” It’s true today more now than ever. And that impact of being connected into the culture, having a strong culture is where Green Training Associates can provide support with these three training suites.

So, we’re driving the culture change in order to optimize your organization and have a thriving organization. So your culture priority might be building an inclusive, diverse, just, equitable culture with psychological safety, belonging, and acceptance. Well, we have an inclusive talent training suite that develops smart people with six courses that builds improved workplace collaboration, inclusivity, solid relationships for multigenerational workforces, culturally intelligent leaders, women in leadership programs.

If you have a culture priority of building a business where employees develop a growth mindset, that’s essential for success today, which is employees that contribute to the development of a business and to hit the ground running. We want to develop employees with the Growth Mindset Training Suite with six courses that enable you to drive innovation, take intelligent risks, improve team collaboration, increase your employees’ resiliency, and help them lead change. And all of these important skills are packaged in the Growth Mindset Training Suite.

And your third culture priority may be to engage your employees with the purpose-driven vision of green and sustainability and training your employees to execute. So, our Sustainable Future Training Suite develops employees for a smart planet with six courses where we’re educating employees to promote well-being, helping them make green decisions every day, engage the employees, and have fundamentals of climate adaptation, Earth Day, and water conservation concepts.

So these are the three must have organizational culture training suites, Inclusive Talent, Growth Mindset, and Sustainable Future.

Jeff Ton [00:32:29]:

I love how they all interrelate and tie back to the sustainability initiative. And I love that quote from Drucker. I wish I had that as a poster on my wall because I think that is so true.

Well, Pam, we are just about out of time, and I know that you are an action-driven person, and we here on Status Go are also action driven. Would love it if you could share with our listeners what are one or two things they should go do tomorrow because they listen to our conversation today.

Pam Sammarco [00:33:05]:

Well, you know, Jeff, I’m an overachiever, and I strive for excellence. So, let’s get the CIOs prepared that are listening there today so we know IT executives are going to be called upon to support enterprise-wide initiatives and align to the five business drivers for tech. And all five of those types of sustainable technology are fair game for your goals and performance metrics.

Here are your five calls to action. They’re fast. First, discover your enterprise sustainability priorities. Second, brainstorm IT’s role with your internal and external partners. Third, establish goals and purpose and align your performance metrics. Develop your employee’s power skills to accelerate your strategy with the Power TQ Skills Solution and optimize your company culture, both in partnership with Green Training Associates to improve inclusivity with DEI Leadership Training, growth mindset, and sustainable future.

So many thanks to Jeff Ton of Ton Enterprises for inviting me to talk with you all about sustainable technology, a strategic framework for IT executives. And thank you all very much for listening to our conversation today. Let’s connect on how to get you prepared for Gartner’s 2025 prediction.

Jeff Ton [00:34:24]:

Well, thank you very much, Pam, I appreciate that and I appreciate the shout-out for hosting this conversation, and I love that five actions for the price of two. So that’s fantastic and things that our listeners can start doing tomorrow.

Pam, thank you so much for being on Status Go. I really do appreciate your time today. To our listeners, if you have a question or want to learn more, visit intervision.com. The show notes will provide links and contact information, and we’ll link directly to Pam’s website, where you can read about the Power TQ Skills Solution, as well as the three cultural training suites that they have put together. This is Jeff Ton for Pam Sammarco. Thank you very much for listening.